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 Post subject: Flipping bone nuts?
PostPosted: September 29th, 2011, 5:06 pm 
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Joined: August 24th, 2010, 6:02 pm
Posts: 11
Is it possible to flip a righty slotted nut for a lefty fender bass?

I was putting a set of the old fender flats 55-105 on my fender jazz and the string tension was so high that it snapped the nut. (To be fair the nut was probably really old and decaying) So, I was thinking that I should put a brass nut on the jazz. However, I have no experience with nuts so I'm not sure if they are symmetrical enough to flip.

Anyone have experience with this? Or would I be better off just going with another blank bone/plastic nut?


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 Post subject: Re: Flipping bone nuts?
PostPosted: September 29th, 2011, 6:23 pm 
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Joined: August 1st, 2009, 6:19 pm
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Location: Sint Maarten, N.A
I did it many times: Buy a bone nut on E-bay, buy a set of small round files in a craft store and make your own nut. Otherwise a professional can do it for you for around $30.


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 Post subject: Re: Flipping bone nuts?
PostPosted: September 30th, 2011, 7:50 am 
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Joined: March 10th, 2008, 7:00 pm
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Location: Seattle, WA USA
if you don't have the tools/experience to cut your own nut, I recommend taking it to a local tech and having a new nut cut for you

nuts, when properly cut, have their witness point at the edge closest to the bridge and then taper down inside the nut so that the string sits right on that witness point. this is for intonation, and also so that you don't have string buzzing inside the nut.

if you were to flip a properly cut righty nut, the witness point would now be at the back side of the nut causing issues with set-up and intonation. while you may be able to "get away with it", once you've spent time playing a bass that's been set-up to its optimum for both the bass and your personal playing technique ... you'll never settle for a so-so set-up job again (and that flipped nut is going to drive you crazy in a very bad way)

all the best,

R

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 Post subject: Re: Flipping bone nuts?
PostPosted: September 30th, 2011, 9:18 am 
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Joined: March 13th, 2008, 6:40 am
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Location: Austin,Texas
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if you were to flip a properly cut righty nut, the witness point would now be at the back side of the nut causing issues with set-up and intonation.


True. But, if your experience is like mine, most nut slots are not cut deep enuff, allowing room to cut the slots at a proper (reversed) angle.

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 Post subject: Re: Flipping bone nuts?
PostPosted: September 30th, 2011, 10:34 am 
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it really depends on the manufacturer IME ... you won't be flipping your RGW, Lull, or Sadowsky nut since they are all cut for a properly detailed low action set-up

I always plan on cutting a new nut if for no other reason than you can't be guaranteed to get the original out without damage (sometimes you get lucky :) sometimes you don't :( ) and the nut blank itself is cheap (under $6US) so why spend time fixing up a nut when it's not much additional time to do one right from a fresh blank


the OP did note this is a Fender, and these are notorious for nuts that require additional work to get them detailed prior to playing. an out of the box Fender will typically have slight intonation issues at the first and second fret due to the factory installed nut being cut too high

a replacement nut requires a lot of skilled work, even if it's one of those awful pre-cut types sold the help save bench time. it's also really easy to mess up a nut ... so if you're ordering blanks, be sure to get 3-5 of them. the shipping will be the same either way, and if you don't mess one up you'll have extras for the future

all the best,

R

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 Post subject: Re: Flipping bone nuts?
PostPosted: October 2nd, 2011, 1:49 am 
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Joined: November 20th, 2008, 7:01 am
Posts: 323
Rodent is correct about the 'witness' point. Some cheaper nuts are almost square inside the slots, that is...if you have enough slot height, you can flip it, and deepen the slot, revising the witness point. Most Fenders have a mitre in the slot over time, and really can't be used like that. In my humble opinion, the nut is perhaps THE most critical single part on any stringed instrument! I can and have, actually changed the tension and feel on string basses by changing HOW the string follows the slot into the tuning machine. New basses and guitars with nut slots too high are a bear to play, and can't be played in tune. A few minutes with some proper files, and a true understanding of neck geometry, the player and their style...and a sit down with them, after removing and readjusting- make all the difference in the World.

I've stopped using bone, except by request, or on a vintage instrument- for a few reasons...I don't mind the smell of it when machining it like some do, but I think Corian is a better choice. So does Martin Guitars.
Corian is a DuPont trade name for this material, which was developed as a less expensive alternative for Marble. It is a very hard, bright sounding material. If you have two pieces, hit them together, it makes a very similar tone to the same sizes in bone. The material used to be easy to find...and free if you knew a cabinet maker- They have scraps cut off from making counter tops. I used to get lots of nice white Corian and had a 'stash' of it for years. You can buy a surplus or new Corian cutting board on Ebay, and it'll last a very long time. I NEVER charge clients for nut or saddle blanks- with bone, they cost ME, so, it's like 10 bucks a pop. It is a composite, and can and will deform when you heat it up on a sander. It shapes and works GREAT, and polishes to a very nice shine. Make a mistake with a Corian blank, and you're not out another 10 dollar bone blank.

There is another reason- bone is not always uniform density, and I've had some undersaddle pickup amplitude issues not related to slot or saddle bottom flatness due to this. As soon as I swapped in a Corian saddle- problem solved.

How does it sound? I have two Edwards 5 string basses - one has a brass nut, the other Corian. There has never been even a moment where I thought the Corian nut didn't work as good as the brass one. The open strings ring out just like the fretted ones. Good luck with your project!


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