LeftyBassist.com

I have never owned a bass made of basswood but I have seen a few and they seem to dent pretty easily but one thing I will say about my experience is the sum of the total parts in the end effects the overall tone of the instrument (If you are in a situation where that could be heard). In most situations someone looking to own a MIJ bass is most likely getting it to play out live in clubs or for jam sessions where you might not want to be taking out one of you highly prized instruments. We play this club called the Lizard Lounge in Lancaster and believe me you aint gonna hear the difference between basswood or fruitcake. It’s dark dirty smells like pee and beer and cigarettes and it’s in the basement. An outstanding fun place to play and let it all hang out but I would bring a less expensive bass.

Now for recording or playing through a nice amp at home you can hear all the differences, not that maybe one sounds bad but maybe not as good. I have many basses and they are tools for different jobs. I don’t get the I play only one bass thing. We play live, record and play different kinds of music and I love different basses for different things. My Warwick Streamer sounds great with a pick or fingers and my Thumb NT sounds even better with fingers but blows with a pick.

I am to this day guilty of being a purist or headstock snob but time and time again I’ll hear someone live and think man that guy’s tone is so bad ass and then I see it’s a Squire and a peavey or something along those lines and I remember at the end of the day I think I know a lot more than I do. I have been drooling over that eBay MIJ jazz black one with the ebony board and blocks and I don’t even care for Fenders for myself so I understand the gas...

I agree with most of it Thumb, especially that I have in the past jammed with some players from Africa who were using the worst gear and sounded like bass gods. Several friends from Senegal told me they previously could not afford bass strings and were using bicycle cables instead. Another friend owner of a bass boutique called "Tout Pour Le Bassiste" used to ship boxes of used strings that he donated to African players. ..
Now, a lot of our discussions have to do with how YOU feel about your gear. I think most non-bass players listeners in a live situation don't hear much difference between a $300 bass and a $3000 one. And yes if you play in a dive you may want to bring a beater not your Warwick.

My Warwicks are my beaters Wait till i show you guys what i bought yeasterday for next to nothing OH MY

Well, not to play any real sort of wood Nazi game here, but I am indeed a luthier, and woodworker, and have been repairing Fender basses since about 1968. I'm almost 60 now. I have been playing bass since 1967. I've heard and played tens of thousands of Fender, and all sorts of other basses in my ongoing career. I built my first P-bass out of a piece of oak. It was pretty heavy. I did a lot of experimenting with that bass. Pickup type and placement were the subjects for that test mule over the years. It had a few different necks, and ended up in my bass boneyard. The reason I built it, is that at 16, I couldn't afford a new left handed Fender, so I bought a neck which they used to sell, right off the production line...at Andre Audio in Manhattan. I played with the 'e' on the bottom then, so a righty neck was just fine... it was a jazz bass neck- rosewood with blocks 80 bucks. In 1968, there were NO aftermarket parts other than Grover, and Schaller replacement tuners. Larry Dimarzio hadn't even setup shop on 48th.st. back then. There were NO bass builders to my knowledge around then other than MAYBE a fledgling Alembic...
I've owned and gigged extensively with the aforementioned alder bodied jazz and precision basses, both produced in the Fender factory in the early 70's. I know that they both were good basses, but NOTHING like the matched set of '62 sunburst Fender p, and j-basses my friend Pete had, circa 1975. ALL FOUR of those basses, mine, and my friend's were alder bodies, maple necks. My p-bass had a maple neck, not rosewood. There WAS SOMETHING ELSE going on that made those basses very different. I set out to find out what those things were. There were many.
But it's the body wood factor we're addressing here. As far as the wood in the bodies making that much of a difference- well, I can tell you that I have a damn good ear for timbre and for detecting dead spots- remember, it's my JOB. I have to be able to recommend to someone to dump a bass that won't adjust properly, or one that has had too much fingerboard thinning- or the intrinsic neck strength is poor or below average. Can you say 's' curve? In My opinion, THE NECK makes the instrument. The strength and stability are part of what makes a bass punchy. String choice, and the player fill out the equation.
It is the primary function of the body on an electric solid body bass or guitar, to facilitate the placement of the pickups, electronics, neck and bridge, and to provide a pleasing functional shape both to us, the player, and to the audience.
If you were disappointed in those Japanese basses, I think you really did hear the difference- in those particular basses. I'm lucky, I love mine.
Do a small movement in the placement of a Fender precision bass pickup, and the tone change is dramatic.
I stand by what I say about the small, nearly undetectable differences, in my experience. I use ALL of my Fenders, with all their different body woods- live, with both amps and in-ears. I work several times a week with them. I also have a terrific swamp ash, maple necked Warmoth p- bass...great bass...not as punchy as the basswood Fender Japan basses. Maybe the D'aDarrio Chrome medium gauge strings on both the Fenders are what makes the difference. The sound guy- at the Feather Falls Casino in Oroville, Ca. tells me that my Fenders are very punchy in the mix...his words, not mine...I do not hear front of house mix. He knows of which he speaks, he worked with Rick Turner and with the early EMG company.
The electric bass, is after all, electric. A simple pickup swap will typically produce a more dramatic tone change than switching bodies in most of the instances I recall. I recently worked on a cheap Squier PLYWOOD bodied bass that was amazingly good sounding, and ironically, It was a righty I converted to lefty for a local player, so I really got to check it out through my amps..
A few years ago, I needed to replace a broken spruce endblock in an upright bass. I fabricated it out of basswood. It works and machines nicely, is indeed a hardwood, and made a good block for the bass it went into. It will not be subjected to denting...as a bass body might. Hey, don't people PAY big money for scratched and dented basses now? LOL!

Great post, so do you stand by the idea that those preCBS Fenders are different?

"THE NECK makes the instrument."

I agree 110% been saying to guys for years and they look at me like I'm a window licker off the short bus.

Well?

I'm sorry don't mean to hijack this thread and it is a good one. I suspect we shall be moved to another section for this and rightfully so but here ya go...I met the guy in person and oh my what a story to tell....See if this still works

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... MEWAX%3AIT

Hi Joe, my small differences comment was about the Japanese made Fender basses with different bodies, made of different woods.

There was and is, a significant difference in the basses that my friend Pete and I compared in 1975. He had two nicely broken in 1962 Fender basses. A P-bass, and a j-bass. Both alder bodied, sunburst, maple necks, clay dot rosewood boards. He and I both liked a low action then, Me, not so much like Entwistlian board hugging action now. Those basses had a dark growl, and pleasing mids and highs- and a smoothness...the necks both felt wonderful. The previous owner was a session bassist, and played the crap out of them, they had much of the finish gone from the 'money' areas of the backs of the necks. They both felt like a really old comfortable pair of shoes.
I think almost no one outside of Fender, other that a seriously warped minded tinkerer like myself had any idea that there were differences..as the companies always say, 'subject to change without notice.' Peter Tholke and I might be among the first to know that Fender used a different bridge pickup spacing on basses made after a certain point...My J-bass, Olympic white alder body, maple neck, rosewood board, pearl blocks..was made in 1971. It didn't quite sound, feel or play like his j-bass. We carefully laid my lefty bass on top of his righty '62. Mirror image, right? NO, it wasn't!
We were both surprised, like in 'holy s*it, Batman!' Here's the first thing we discovered. The bridge pickup, AND THE BRIDGE ITSELF, were both moved back 3/8" in the scale length! Yes, we measured. Neck pickup placement was identical.
Now, bass afficionados call that '70's spacing. I'll bet a lot of them still don't know or care that the string anchor point is further back, too. The J-bass neck shape on mine was completely different. It felt like the round small end of a baseball bat at the first fret. His felt meatier, yet still thin. His bass' nut width was 1-5/8" Mine was 1-1/2" that's really noticeable in your hand. The shape was flatter, and had a better taper. The neck center and meeting point with the body was also beefier. The REAL feel difference was in my perceived QUALITY difference in the two necks. It felt like the '62 was a handmade neck, albeit using machines, stronger and more robust...The '71 felt completely machined, and the shape change was not for the better. The nut was cut really close together on the '71, and spaced nicely on the '62. I'm sure his had a nitrocellulose finish on the neck, mine was likely urethane of some type. My bass and his were both Fender Jazz Basses. Yes, they looked, sounded and to the untrained ears and eyes, were essentially the same bass. But to me, and Pete- they were way different. I remember after our comparisons..lamenting to Pete that I wondered why Fender just doesn't go back to making them like they did back then, with these great features...and to try to bring back those seemingly small details that we loved. In 1979, I began working at Sam Ash in Brooklyn, as a repairman...and saw the first '62 stack knob re-issues in about '81-'82, in the Forest Hills, Queens store where I transferred to. I was optomistic- but our buddies at Fender were STILL NOT MAKING LEFTIES! I hope some of my humble experiences will shed some light on this topic for you guys!

Just a disclaimer here...I want to say that the body wood does indeed contribute to the tone of any given bass...but when I read things written by p.r. ad men at guitar companies about a thin finish letting the wood 'breathe' or a maple capped bass body making the bass a 'slappers delight' I want to throw up in my mouth. Some of the best basses I've ever heard and played were really cheap imports- mostly Japanese, and nothing special at all in terms of wood, or electronics....they just were good basses. There was a left handed house brand Carlo Robelli Jazz Bass at Ash..in the late 70's that I really should have bought. it was a much better bass than my '71 Fender.

" but when I read things written by p.r. ad men at guitar companies about a thin finish letting the wood 'breathe' or a maple capped bass body making the bass a 'slappers delight' I want to throw up in my mouth"

I guess a few builders like say Paul Reed Smith, Joe Zon, JD from Warrior, Mike Tobias, etc... Referring to finishes that are thin and breathe are all wrong????

I hate you, that town is literally 1 exit down I-81 from me and I want one of those so bad (jealous)

I will not ever poo-poo what other builders claim in their p.r., but I can tell you what it makes me want to do...and some of what they say is strictly designed to build and reinforce the mojo of their business. All wrong? no, but a slight exaggeration, or a perceived speculatory concept...or some knowledge through experimentation might be a better way to put it. I don't blame them one bit for doing what they do. All the builders you mention are obviously world class. I love PRS guitars, and completely respect the great work of the other luthiers you mentioned. MARKETING is a TOOL used by smart businessmen and women to increase sales, and the MYSTIQUE of a particular product. LIMITING PRODUCTION adds to the 'exclusivity factor' and also increases that mystique. A friend recently paid over 500 dollars for a set of PRS 57-08 guitar pickups that were hyped as nearly unobtainable. Paul Reed Smith is a VERY smart guy. Creating an 'air' about his products is one of his strong points as a company owner.
A little reminder of this precise technique to the 'average' non music manufacturer savvy bassist, is the withholding, or limiting production of lefty basses by the Rickenbacker company. The result? A huge increase in the new and used prices, due to the demand. In my view, unnecessary for an instrument of limited practicality. 3k for a 4001 or a 4003? I don't think that's right, as much as I like Rickenbacker's woodworking. Maybe for a CS 4001 lefty re-issue, but that's it.
I have an all mahogany bass that sounds great for slapping, and it doesn't need a maple top...to be good for that. The nitrocellulose thin skin breathing claim...well, remember, I do a lot of repairs..and my work also involves a good number of upright bass violins. The amount of finish on an acoustic instrument is a VERY important factor in the sound and tone the instrument produces. A varnish that does not allow the top to flex and vibrate...can inhibit the tone. A great luthier knows just what kind of varnish, and how much to apply to get the desired results. The amount of finish, and type on an electric bass? It is there to protect the wood, with cost, ease of application, and durability all factors in this area. The Alembic Series one and two basses are among the best sounding basses ever made, in my view- and some of these basses had very thick urethane- poly finishes. Some of the 70's Jazz basses have a great growly tone that really sounds good. They also have thick urethane type coatings, both on the bodies and necks...I know, I've had to remove some of that incredibly hard undercoat. MY opinion, is that on a solid body instrument, where you DO NOT have an acoustic chamber producing the sound, but an electronic pickup...that the body wood does play a part in the tone overall, of said instrument...but on a pie chart, it is significantly less than on say, a semi-hollow bodied bass. you might disagree, and so may those great builders. My '76 Carl Thompson bass had an oil and wax finish. got pretty dirty in spots...but sounded great. I shot it with acrylic lacquer in the late 80's, and it still sounded great.

Seriously thank you, I am at 42 gobbling up as much information as I can about electric stringed instruments and believe me I read every single word you typed. I have had the pleasure of being a musician and bass player for almost 29 years and owning and played probably well over 50 to 60 high end basses and guitars. I agree a builder like JD will push a player to get the super duper “oil hand rubbed” finish because he can do it in his own shop and he doesn’t have to send it off to Pat Wilkins in CA to have him do a proper paint and or clear coat job and at the end of the day it’s cheaper for JD.

The whole finishing steps are extremely difficult to master and time consuming and expensive so I think that probably the biggest reason oil finishes are pushed or hyped but I have also owned two of the same bass with same woods, electronics, hardware, strings and played through same amp and heard differences from a thick clear coat to a super thin matte or oil finish. I do not think it is a prevalent as say the difference between a neck through or bolt on design and playing live I don’t think it could be heard at all. But in a great studio going through some high end recording gear it could make a difference but again the studio could change that back and forth as well.

Paul Reed Smith does it because he believes in it 100% he sells a lot of guitars and he doesn’t care what other builders think at this point his product is among the best in the world. For me I just hate the feel of a super high gloss glassy finish but to each his own. Thank you for your professionalism and honesty I will keep all of what you said in the back of my mind.

Hey Thumbslam, thank you for being open minded and for reading my post. I feel that I am very opinionated, but open...nothing is really written in stone, except the Georgia Guidestones...and that is not a topic for this forum. I have come to certain conclusions, and that's because time and my experience on the workbench all these years counts for something, I guess. Paul Reed Smith STOLE the Gibson Les Paul Jr. double cutaway body shape for his instruments. HE SUED Gibson and won for their stealing of one of 'his' designs. How ironic and unfair is that? He and other makers are using the ideas of many luthiers, in their designs. I was strongly influenced by Carl Thompson, who made me a bass in '76...and where I used to go on occasion an observe, carefully, what he was doing. Carl had REALLY strong opinions about other makers, and Fender's in particular. He was pretty mad sometimes about some of his ideas ending up on other maker's basses. He was right. I'd never have the gall to sue him for stealing one of my designs.
Your statements on finish- I have done a lot of stripping, sanding, primering, spraying, wiping, oiling, waxing, and final wet sanding and rubbing out with three different compounds, of lacquer guitar finishes over the years. I have also painted a few cars. In the realm of guitar repair, and building, there is no bigger pain in the ass time consuming, sometimes maddeningly frustrating- and highly toxic area than finish work. I do not refinish any more. I'd like my lungs tumor free for the remainder of my time here. Wood and sanding dust is bad enough to breathe. I do spray things like a maple board, or a neck tinting job, small things, with my Passche airbrush. Shooting a body, and the vapors created by a production type gun are too much. A neck heel on an upright- which I'll be doing here in a few days on an Engelhardt bass I'm resetting the neck in, but that's it. I don't change my own oil anymore, I let someone else that knows how to do it fast, well, and for a good price get dirty, while I shop.... same idea.

There's a lot of basses out there. NOT MANY of them are left handed, as if I really needed to mention that. The simple rule, find a bass you like, buy it. Keep it, buy more. Don't play one, pass it on to another bassist that will be ecstatic to get it. Keep as many as you need to fulfill your desires, and needs as an artist. I have one nice circa 1920 German upright, and 11 electric basses. I'm building Edwards number five right now. It's a 5 string, with an alder body, flamed maple top, neck, and fingerboard. It will be dyed blue, and shot with clear nitro over it. It IS left handed, I can assure you! LOL! If I wasn't so damn busy playing, I'd probably have it further along now...Oh well. Life is good.

LHBASSIST, I don't care what Thumbslam says about you, you're alright! It is sure nice to have you and Rod on this forum, there is such an incredible amount bass knowledge being shared on Leftybassist.com that many righties ought to check it out more often.

Thanks, Frenchy... anyone that plays bass, and especially us lefties, is cool with me. I've loved the bass since I took it up in 1967, and no power on Earth, including my father was going to prevent me from being a professional bassist. I've been one ever since I got good enough for someone to actually pay me for doing a gig! LOL! I'm glad to know all of you guys, and any gals on here, too.

OK Frenchy your next MMWWWAAAHH AA AA AAAAhhhhh