LeftyBassist.com

Update about a week later:

So I put my usual set of SIT 45-100, 125 gauge on and it was well, interesting. I think they had a pretty light gauge on there as these are pulling the neck really hard. The truss nut is about at the end of its travel and the neck will not fully straighten. It's certainly playable but I always have appreciated a neck I could forward bow knowing the nut is never at the end of its travel.

String changing takes some getting use to. What I found the hard way was that you need put the ball end in but only turn the tuning nut a hair or enough to keep the ball end from popping out. Keeping the head piece string screw in, pull the string through as tight as possible and while holding, cut. This is a chore with the low B string ! The reason for this method is to allow for as much play in the tuning nut as possible. If you don't you will run out of action at that nut to tune it up to pitch. Also as stated earlier, you have to pull the string back from sticking out of the head piece just enough to both stay under the string screw and keep out of reach as to not cut yourself with the string end while playing.

Concern on the low B and we've seen this before: the intonation screw to the saddle only goes far enough (towards the rear of the bridge) to just barely properly intonate the B. I thought it was the spring and cut a bit of the spring down however it is actually the end of the screw where it goes into the saddle. I wish they would tap all the way through the saddle so you never hit the end of intonation prematurely.

Otherwise, still a cool bass !! With regards to that string change, this is something you definitely cannot do on the fly at a gig between songs. You will have to hunt for the hex wrench to use on the head piece string screw, take care with how far you pull in the ball end with the tuner and then take your time pulling the string and cutting, then screw down the string at the head piece while keeping the string end in so it won't cut you.

I do wish Kiesel would have given the option for a double ball end head piece.

Hope I'm not boring everyone.
-vinnie

Vinnie - thanks for the review and info on string changing. Just curious, after having gone through all of this, will you stay with the SIT's, eventually find another string set with less tension, or would you advise new buyers to keep the stock strings on? And, with all of the extra work to put your SIT's on, is there a considerable improvement in the sound and tone?

Thanks for reading !

I'm not married to the SIT's. I think I decided on them a while back simply because they sounded good, were inexpensive, lasted longer than say a set of D'adarrio's and were cheap. They do have some mad tension though. This set is already at 45-100 with the 125 so it's not super heavy to begin with. I just wanted the SIT's on as I have a number of sets sitting around, I am pretty use to them and the stocks were dead when they got here so indeed, tone improved.

Looking at the head piece last night, I'll bet if you use a double ball end, it might work. The retaining hex screw is still needed and the ball would stick out of the head piece however it may work.

Also closer examination leads me to believe this is Hipshot hardware, which is just fine by me. I'm a Hipshot fan for life and Bill W on this board is such a great guy to talk to and work with. Perhaps he may be able to shed some light on this design.

Do you think it would be possible to take the headpiece off the neck and replace it with one designed for double-ball strings? Your headpiece doesn't look much different from the one on my Hohner, and it pops off with two screws. I've only changed strings once, but it was a breeze.

Also, regarding intonation of your B-string, and please forgive me if you know this already, but did you set the witness point? In your picture it looks like the B string may still have some curve to it on the neck side of the saddle. It should make a sharp bend right at the saddle and then go straight to the neck/head.

Good stuff Tim !

That head piece does indeed come off however I don't know if it is proprietary or not. I will PM Bill and see if he wants to get in on this conversation.

The photos were with stock strings and factory bridge adjustments. It's so much different now. I'm wondering if it was intonated when I got it !! I didn't check until the string change and some of those saddles had to move quite a bit !!

Here's another thing and to me not a huge deal but for a shop providing lefties, it should possibly be a part of the process: pot wiring. All the pots are wired for a righty including the pickup blend. That was odd. I plan to rewire with better pots and if those are 250's, I may use 500's to get a little more highs.

Please forgive the triple post here. I'm all coffeed up and my repressed engineer brain has clawed its way out.

A quick visit to the Hipshot page and I noticed that they design their headpieces to work with both double-ball and regular strings. It is possible that for double-ball strings you remove the hex screws and put the balls into the screw holes?

No worries and great to have the insight !! I did PM Bill to see if he wants to join in.

I thought that last night in looking at the head piece. It appears that the holes for the ball ends have been tapped for the hex screws. Why they did not use a flat head screw, I don't understand. If you lose that wrench and at a gig, you are stuffed.

Let's see what Bill says if he chimes in and then perhaps I will order a set of double ball ends to try.

Because flat head screws strip easier, and they don't retain the driver blade so one little slip and you have a nasty gouge across your beautiful instrument!

Hey! Just got the notification about the topic from"V". I'm headed out the door for practice and don't have the time right now. I will post later when I get back and answer as much as I am able.

Hey Vinnie,

I really don't know where to even begin, so lets start with the B-string saddle intonation issue. Because our saddles use a roller, well on the A-style and Headless saddles, it limits the amount of travel of the intonation screw. We would love to have it pass the full length of the saddles, however then there would be no side to side on the string adjustment.
When contacted about problems much like what Vinnie is having, we do not tell people to contact the builders, we try and help the customer with possible ways that we can help with a fix. In this case, Vinnie, I have your mailing address.....I think, I will get you some replacement screws and springs for your bridge to help with the intonation issue. I will have these out to you in the morning.

On to the next-

Strings are a personal choice and if you are like me, than you have a brand that you like over others. That being said, not all strings are equal, if this were the case, we'd all be using the same brand. I have dealt with SIT strings, and I think they use a larger core on their strings, which may explain the need for neck adjustments in your case.
Loading the claw of our Headless system, I have found the by putting a slight bend were the string meets the ball end helps alot. This allows the ball end to be placed in the claw at a flat angle and helps with the angle over the saddle....if this make any sense! Anyone can call me at anytime if they need help with this. My number is 800-262-5630. PM me if you want my cell number.
The relief on the bridge was a re-design recommended by a number of builders to aide in the loading of the strings as well. I looked at the pictures of your bass to make sure that you did have them.

....and some more.

The use of double ball end strings is something that must be considered in to a design from the start. Double ball end strings are set at a certain length, so layout of the bridge and headpiece are determined by this length. As far as I am aware, all double ball end strings and their length available on the market are designed for use with Steinberger basses (34" Scale). I could be wrong about this and I am sure that someone will chime in to correct me if I am.
The headpiece on Kiesel basses are proprietary as with those on their guitars. We do make them, however it is only for sale to Kiesel as it is their design by and for them. That is about all I am able and willing to say on this. Sorry but my hands are tied on the business matters.

Thanks Vinnie for asking me to rattle on! Andrew, I think I was careful not to break any rules of the forum, let me know if I did.

Thanks!

Bill

Bill thanks so much for this great info !! This is what forum discussions are all about. I think folks get too tied up in thinking the discussions are negative when in fact are positive. Hipshot and Carvin/Kiesel are a great match. It's as if to say, I would love to see these basses go even further towards perfection even if it costs a bit more. They are really cool and as said, I see another in the future.

So Bill, would I ask Kiesel about the double end option ? It was discussed here that a ball end may fit in the hole that has been tapped for the hex screw. I should have gone to NAMM this year and talked to Jeff in person. He seems like a super nice guy. I'm glad he is doing as much as he is with Kiesel. Carvin guitars and basses needed a reboot and he is really doing some awesome things.

Good call on the SIT cores. That sounds like it makes a ton of sense. It may be time to try some other strings out. I wonder of Ernie Ball's are the same ? I generally play nickels. Any other suggestions out there ? Maybe DR Sunbeams again or Nickel LoRiders ?

You are very welcome!
The hole for the set screw is a little smaller than the diameter of the second or top ball end of the double ball end string. The holes are drilled and tapped to accept a #10-32 screw. If these holes are in the proper location for double ball end strings, there still may be an issue using them. The holes should be either drilled at an angle, or milled with a key hole end mill to provide a lip to help retain the ball end.
Now the threads from the tap may provide enough grip to hold the ball end, but with the headpiece being made from brass, they will compress after the first use. After a string change, there may not be enough material to help capture the ball.
Kiesel would be your best bet, give them a shout and see what they say. I know that Jeff would love to hear positive feedback. If it's a no go, give me a shout at my work email and we can talk.
Thanks!

Bill

Switching over to a set of Slinky Nickels did help the Vader neck to flatten out a bit as they may have a bit less pull than the SIT's. I think I will continue with the Slinky's for a bit and see how they do. They are cheaper as well so bonus there.

Bill is indeed correct that a second ball end will not fit in the head piece so a double-ball end supporting head piece would have to be swapped in if that were possible. I am getting use to the string change and will post a video at some point with some tips that will hopefully be of help to someone out there.

Bill thanks again for chiming in !!

Still really digging these Vaders. I recommend checking them out. Great body size and excellent satin work making for a wide though very comfortable neck.

If it were me, I would return it if the truss rod was maxed out and not able to straighten the neck with a standard gauge set of strings.

That's not a good sign, IMO... but YMMV.

So the neck really straightened out well. It must have been going from CA to VA and all of the crazy weather changes as well as settling in. As well as this bass plays now, I'll be putting it up here as I have not played the 5's much at all. What I really need to put the money towards is a fretless 4 which I think I will go with Kiesel again. These are too cool not to have around and are of great quality. I know that will get a ton more use as I need a good fretless 4 more than anything else.

Stand by for a for sale post. This will serve someone well, I know it.