LeftyBassist.com :: View topic - Excessive Fret Buzzing

sorry for getting to the party soooooo late here :oops:

Quote:

So I've been really enjoying my new Fender Jaguar bass, but one problem has emerged ... the action is not really set that low, and the saddles on my bridge are already about as high as they can go. Checking the bow of the neck, I can see there is no backbow, and even when I loosen the truss rod and raise the action to the point where it is almost unplayable, I still get lots of buzzing in the upper frets.

Quote:

I've even gone as far as switching necks with my Frankenjazz to see if the problem would go away. The neck I switched is a warmoth in goncalo alves with an ebony fretboard, and it plays very well on the jazz (super low action with no buzzing). But when I put it on the Jag, I got the exact same excessive buzzing. So I know the problem is not the neck.

This would be so easy to check in person, but difficult to describe how to check via text in a forum ...

You'll need a long straight edge that is at least the length of the distance from your first fret past then end of the neck. Lay the edge across the neck next to your E-string and measure the gap at the larget distance and note which fret it's at. Take note to visually see if you have an even slope down from one contact point down towards this low spot and back up to the contact point. Be specifically on the lookout for any kind of wobble or small humps - especially in the upper fret areas. If you see any, take measurement of the difference and note which fret(s) this is at. OK, now do the same for the G-string side of the neck. It's important that you measure as accurately as possible. In my shop I'd be using feeler gauges to the .001", but by eye you're going to be good to get things to the closest 1/64"

Depending on what you report back, there's more to investigate here. What you report back will help determine which direction to go

Quote:

it could be do to body warp

While this is possible, I highly doubt it to be the case. Easy to check for though ... with the neck removed, lay a long straight edge on the body along the centerline. the edge should lay reasonably flat along the body. if you have a significant low spot in the middle of the body, you have a problem. if not, you're good

Quote:

UPDATE: I put a shim in and it just made the problem worse. Any more ideas?

Like Peter noted - it's all about where you put that shim ... let's hold-off on shims just yet, as it's best to determine the root issue before bandaging is applied

I'd also like you to accurately measure the depth of your neck pocket with a dial caliper. In this case, knowing the depth at several places will help confirm if what I believe to be the case is realy the issue. Measeure the depth at the edge closest to the neck (on centerline if you don't have a trussrod access adjustment slot, just to the side of it if you do) and also as close as you can get to the edge of the body before encountering the topside round over. I'm looking to be certain your neck pocket is of the proper depth, and also if it is compensated for the neck angle or not. (i.e. the shim is built into the pocket, essentially making it unparallel to the body top)

And while you're measuring the neck pocket depth, look to make sure there's not any blob of paint, wood chips, or goo in the pocket bottom that would cause the neck to tilt when coming in contact with it.

That's it for now. I'll be looking for your reply

all the best,

R

Author:	reynoldbot [ January 26th, 2010, 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Excessive Fret Buzzing
So I've been really enjoying my new Fender Jaguar bass, but one problem has emerged and I can't seem to fix it myself. When I play notes in the upper register, I get excessive fret buzzing to the point where the note completely deteriorates. I know it's being caused by the strings buzzing against frets higher up on the neck. The problem is, the action is not really set that low, and the saddles on my bridge are already about as high as they can go. Checking the bow of the neck, I can see there is no backbow, and even when I loosen the truss rod and raise the action to the point where it is almost unplayable, I still get lots of buzzing in the upper frets. I've even gone as far as switching necks with my Frankenjazz to see if the problem would go away. The neck I switched is a warmoth in goncalo alves with an ebony fretboard, and it plays very well on the jazz (super low action with no buzzing). But when I put it on the Jag, I got the exact same excessive buzzing. So I know the problem is not the neck. What are my options? I don't think the saddles on my bridge are supposed to be set as high as they are, and the neck is not the problem, so I just don't know why there is so much fret buzz. Please help!

Author:	AzWhoFan [ January 26th, 2010, 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
Rodent or pjmuck are probably better qualified to answer you, but I'll venture forth with this: A need a neck shim maybe?

Author:	pjmuck [ January 26th, 2010, 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
Rod will be the expert here, but I'll offer my 2 cents until he shows up: 1. Change the strings. Believe it or not, I've had similar problems and they immediately went away when I put my string of choice on the instrument. Basses often come with crappy stock strings which may not offer the proper tension or are often defective. 2. Did you notice if any upper frets are higher than others? You may need a fret leveling/crowning. An easy way to check this is to lay a straight edge across the frets down the length of the neck (I use an aluminum ruler). If the straight edge rocks or won't lay flat you may have either uneven frets or a bow in the neck.

Author:	reynoldbot [ January 27th, 2010, 2:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
pjmuck wrote: Rod will be the expert here, but I'll offer my 2 cents until he shows up: 1. Change the strings. Believe it or not, I've had similar problems and they immediately went away when I put my string of choice on the instrument. Basses often come with crappy stock strings which may not offer the proper tension or are often defective. 2. Did you notice if any upper frets are higher than others? You may need a fret leveling/crowning. An easy way to check this is to lay a straight edge across the frets down the length of the neck (I use an aluminum ruler). If the straight edge rocks or won't lay flat you may have either uneven frets or a bow in the neck. 1.) I changed out the stock strings to DR High Beams, my string of choice for years. I'll switch them out with a different set and see what happens. 2.) As I said, I don't think the problem is in the frets, since I switched out the neck with a warmoth neck that's been on my Frankenjazz (which has super low action and no buzzing) and I got the exact same problem. The fact that the saddles on my bridge had to be set so high just to get the action high enough to be playable is telling that the problem is not uneven frets. Frankly, I hope that whatever solves the buzzing problem will also let me lower those saddles a bit, as they are obviously set higher than they should be.

Author:	pjmuck [ January 27th, 2010, 8:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
Look at the neck/bass from the side and check to see if the neck is seated in the neck pocket properly and parallel to the side of the body cut. If it appears sloped or angled then you may need to shim the neck. Other than that, I'm at a loss. Hopefully Rod will come along soon.

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Author:	frankenjazz [ January 28th, 2010, 7:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
Im no expert, but my time working at GC taught me a couple of things, if changing the strings and swapping the neck didn't work it could be do to body warp, don't take my word but from the way you describe it, its a possibility

Author:	Rodent [ January 28th, 2010, 7:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
sorry to have been absent for a bit. got home at 11P last night after a couple days in St Louis, preceeded by a couple in Philadelphia, and a couple in Orlando, and a couple in ... well you get the picture. I'm almost at 15K butt-in-seat miles on airplanes so far this year - who'd have thought the sleepy end to 2009 would cause the first month of 2010 to wake up so aggressively? I'll be back in a dya or so to post a few things to check out and report back on. I have a couple things to chase on this ... all the best, R

Author:	reynoldbot [ January 28th, 2010, 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
UPDATE: I changed the strings and the buzzing is still as prevalent as before. If I were to put a shim under the neck, what would be the best material/process for doing so?

Author:	pjmuck [ January 30th, 2010, 8:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
You could really use anything, from folded paper to a thin piece of wood. Matchbook covers and business cards are quite popular. True story: I bought my beloved '72 J back around 1982-83, and never considered taking it apart for years. (I always had my guitar guy do setups until I learned how to do them myself). A few years ago I decided to finally take it apart myself because I wanted to document any markings and dating indications it might have. When I took the neck off, I was surprised to find a piece of magazine paper in the neck pocket, presumably to serve as a shim. It was a men's clothing clipping from some Sears or JC Penny catalog, circa '73 or so, showing one guy wearing horrible bell bottom plaid "slacks" and a porn mustache, and another gut with a huge afro and polyester vest! It still resides in the pocket. The huge 'fro made me think of the time and place these basses were made, and who may have originally owned my bass back then. I pictured the biggest, baddest afro-wearin' Sly Stone-looking mofo slapping the shite out of it , and thus named my bass, "Link".

Author:	fivebass52 [ January 30th, 2010, 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
pjmuck wrote: I pictured the biggest, baddest afro-wearin' Sly Stone-looking mofo slapping the shite out of it , and thus named my bass, "Link". Groovy, man, I can dig it! Link was a great name for a groovy character. In case you don't know what the name Link applies to, here's a "link" to a great website on the TV series "Mod Squad", where the name Link comes from. It's a "solid" read... right on! http://www.chezgrae.com/modsquad/

Author:	pjmuck [ January 31st, 2010, 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
fivebass52 wrote: Groovy, man, I can dig it! Link was a great name for a groovy character. In case you don't know what the name Link applies to, here's a "link" to a great website on the TV series "Mod Squad", where the name Link comes from. It's a "solid" read... right on! http://www.chezgrae.com/modsquad/ Yep, the Mod Squad character was the inspiration. Come on, tell me this Bad Ass couldn't play a bass if he wanted to!:

Author:	reynoldbot [ January 31st, 2010, 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
UPDATE: I put a shim in and it just made the problem worse. Any more ideas?

Author:	AzWhoFan [ January 31st, 2010, 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
reynoldbot wrote: UPDATE: I put a shim in and it just made the problem worse. Any more ideas? Did u try the aluminum straight edge thingy PJ mentioned above?

Author:	reynoldbot [ January 31st, 2010, 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
AzWhoFan wrote: reynoldbot wrote: UPDATE: I put a shim in and it just made the problem worse. Any more ideas? Did u try the aluminum straight edge thingy PJ mentioned above? Yep. I didn't notice anything unusual.

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Author:	pjmuck [ February 1st, 2010, 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
reynoldbot wrote: UPDATE: I put a shim in and it just made the problem worse. Any more ideas? Well a shim is naturally going to raise your neck up closer to the strings, which would make the problem worse, but it all depends on where you place the shim in your neck pocket. You don't necessarily want to raise the entire neck up, but place the shim in your pocket in the appropriate area in order to angle the neck slightly within the pocket either towards the heel or towards the length of the neck. Then adjust your neck relief. Is the problem on all frets from 15-20th, or lower in the 12th-14th fret area? Since I don't know where in the upper frets your problem is happening, I can't tell you where to place the shim, but usually the shim is placed in the area opposite the problem area. So if you're experiencing problems only in the upper 17th-20th frets you want to put a shim in the upper part of the body cavity (around the 16th/17th fret) so the neck is angling slightly downward towards the heel. Likewise, if the problem's in the 12th fret area, the shim would go in the back of the body cavity near the neck heel to angle the neck downward towards the nut. Try that and then fiddle with your relief/saddle height to see if the problem's eliminated. Hope that helps.

Author:	Rodent [ February 1st, 2010, 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
sorry for getting to the party soooooo late here Quote: So I've been really enjoying my new Fender Jaguar bass, but one problem has emerged ... the action is not really set that low, and the saddles on my bridge are already about as high as they can go. Checking the bow of the neck, I can see there is no backbow, and even when I loosen the truss rod and raise the action to the point where it is almost unplayable, I still get lots of buzzing in the upper frets. Quote: I've even gone as far as switching necks with my Frankenjazz to see if the problem would go away. The neck I switched is a warmoth in goncalo alves with an ebony fretboard, and it plays very well on the jazz (super low action with no buzzing). But when I put it on the Jag, I got the exact same excessive buzzing. So I know the problem is not the neck. This would be so easy to check in person, but difficult to describe how to check via text in a forum ... You'll need a long straight edge that is at least the length of the distance from your first fret past then end of the neck. Lay the edge across the neck next to your E-string and measure the gap at the larget distance and note which fret it's at. Take note to visually see if you have an even slope down from one contact point down towards this low spot and back up to the contact point. Be specifically on the lookout for any kind of wobble or small humps - especially in the upper fret areas. If you see any, take measurement of the difference and note which fret(s) this is at. OK, now do the same for the G-string side of the neck. It's important that you measure as accurately as possible. In my shop I'd be using feeler gauges to the .001", but by eye you're going to be good to get things to the closest 1/64" Depending on what you report back, there's more to investigate here. What you report back will help determine which direction to go Quote: it could be do to body warp While this is possible, I highly doubt it to be the case. Easy to check for though ... with the neck removed, lay a long straight edge on the body along the centerline. the edge should lay reasonably flat along the body. if you have a significant low spot in the middle of the body, you have a problem. if not, you're good Quote: UPDATE: I put a shim in and it just made the problem worse. Any more ideas? Like Peter noted - it's all about where you put that shim ... let's hold-off on shims just yet, as it's best to determine the root issue before bandaging is applied I'd also like you to accurately measure the depth of your neck pocket with a dial caliper. In this case, knowing the depth at several places will help confirm if what I believe to be the case is realy the issue. Measeure the depth at the edge closest to the neck (on centerline if you don't have a trussrod access adjustment slot, just to the side of it if you do) and also as close as you can get to the edge of the body before encountering the topside round over. I'm looking to be certain your neck pocket is of the proper depth, and also if it is compensated for the neck angle or not. (i.e. the shim is built into the pocket, essentially making it unparallel to the body top) And while you're measuring the neck pocket depth, look to make sure there's not any blob of paint, wood chips, or goo in the pocket bottom that would cause the neck to tilt when coming in contact with it. That's it for now. I'll be looking for your reply all the best, R

Author:	reynoldbot [ February 16th, 2010, 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Excessive Fret Buzzing
Rodent wrote: sorry for getting to the party soooooo late here Quote: So I've been really enjoying my new Fender Jaguar bass, but one problem has emerged ... the action is not really set that low, and the saddles on my bridge are already about as high as they can go. Checking the bow of the neck, I can see there is no backbow, and even when I loosen the truss rod and raise the action to the point where it is almost unplayable, I still get lots of buzzing in the upper frets. Quote: I've even gone as far as switching necks with my Frankenjazz to see if the problem would go away. The neck I switched is a warmoth in goncalo alves with an ebony fretboard, and it plays very well on the jazz (super low action with no buzzing). But when I put it on the Jag, I got the exact same excessive buzzing. So I know the problem is not the neck. This would be so easy to check in person, but difficult to describe how to check via text in a forum ... You'll need a long straight edge that is at least the length of the distance from your first fret past then end of the neck. Lay the edge across the neck next to your E-string and measure the gap at the larget distance and note which fret it's at. Take note to visually see if you have an even slope down from one contact point down towards this low spot and back up to the contact point. Be specifically on the lookout for any kind of wobble or small humps - especially in the upper fret areas. If you see any, take measurement of the difference and note which fret(s) this is at. OK, now do the same for the G-string side of the neck. It's important that you measure as accurately as possible. In my shop I'd be using feeler gauges to the .001", but by eye you're going to be good to get things to the closest 1/64" Depending on what you report back, there's more to investigate here. What you report back will help determine which direction to go Quote: it could be do to body warp While this is possible, I highly doubt it to be the case. Easy to check for though ... with the neck removed, lay a long straight edge on the body along the centerline. the edge should lay reasonably flat along the body. if you have a significant low spot in the middle of the body, you have a problem. if not, you're good Quote: UPDATE: I put a shim in and it just made the problem worse. Any more ideas? Like Peter noted - it's all about where you put that shim ... let's hold-off on shims just yet, as it's best to determine the root issue before bandaging is applied I'd also like you to accurately measure the depth of your neck pocket with a dial caliper. In this case, knowing the depth at several places will help confirm if what I believe to be the case is realy the issue. Measeure the depth at the edge closest to the neck (on centerline if you don't have a trussrod access adjustment slot, just to the side of it if you do) and also as close as you can get to the edge of the body before encountering the topside round over. I'm looking to be certain your neck pocket is of the proper depth, and also if it is compensated for the neck angle or not. (i.e. the shim is built into the pocket, essentially making it unparallel to the body top) And while you're measuring the neck pocket depth, look to make sure there's not any blob of paint, wood chips, or goo in the pocket bottom that would cause the neck to tilt when coming in contact with it. That's it for now. I'll be looking for your reply all the best, R UPDATE: Whew! I didn't have all the necessary tools to make all the measurements, but based on my experience and what your recommendation seemed to be hinting at, I made the guess that the neck pocket was not cut at the proper angle. So I put a shim in on the end farthest from the bridge, and it worked! I was able to lower my bridge saddles considerably, and the buzzing has been reduced by volumes. I play with the action pretty low, so there's still some buzzing, but it's much better than it was before and almost imperceptible when plugged in. I still want to take those measurements so I can figure out exactly which thickness to use for the shim to completely eliminate the problem, and I'm still going to get the frets checked out the next time I take it into a luthier. I just wanna say thanks to everybody that put their two cents in, and especially to Rodent for nipping the problem in the bud. Thanks guys!