LeftyBassist.com

One of my goals this year is to improve my home recording studio, i.e. basement (possibly at the expense of some of my bass collection, so watch the for sale section. . I already have a suitable setup for doing simple, occasional voice overs (Shure SM7b mic + Garageband or sometimes Logic), but I'd really like to hear from people here who've been actively recording at home for a while and are confident they're getting respectable results and recommendations for upgrading my current setup. I joined Gearslutz.com, and needless to say there are some serious engineers/producers on there who insist you don't even try to attempt Pro quality recordings without a $50,000+ budget. That ain't happening, so my goal is to improve on a minimal budget wisely. For the sake of argument, let's say my budget cap is $3000. My current setup is modest, to say the least, and I know already that I'll need at least a better audio interface then the crappy little Behringer UCA202 that came with my mixer:

Computer: iMac Intel 3.33ghz with 4GB memory, 1 TB hard drive, multiple external HDs
Software: Logic Express, Garageband, Reason, Ableton Live, Melodyne Editor, numerous soft synth programs
Mixer: Behringer Xenyx 1222FX
Monitors: Behringer Truth B2031A actives, numerous headphones
Bass amp: Eden Navigator Preaqmp/head through Eden 410XLT cabinet
Guitar amps: '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb RI, Rivera Rake 50w head, Marshall 1936 2 x 12" cabinet, Boss GT Pro through Atomic Reactor 55w amp
Mics: Shure SM7b dynamic, Shure Beta 87 condenser, Heil PR35 dynamic, Shure Beta 58a
Midi: Midisport 2x2

Any drums or keys/synths I require will be created via software and/or input from my various midi devices (Boss Dr. Rhythm DR-880, Oxygen 8, Eigenharp, Roland GK pickups on my guitars/basses, etc).

The first thing i'd do before buying a piece of gear is to get the room sounding 'right'. All the gear in the world won't help a crappy sounding room. My room is crap, so anything I record in it sounds like very refined crap recorded on 'spensive gear.

Then I would focus on a single stereo pair of channels.

What I use and and recommend:
RME Fireface 800 interface. Perry good pre's, you can find one used for less than a grand on a good day. However, I would scour the after-NAMM market and see what is being developed for USB 3.0 or that new fangled Mac data bus whose name I cant recall at the moment. USB 2.0 is going away in a year or two. Avoid the FF 400, it seems to have firmware/software issues.

Great River mic pres. Around $900 each used on the bay. killer Neve 1073 clone. If you get the FF 800 first, you just may decide you like those pre's enuff.
Or Golden Age Pre 73 preamps. much cheaper, heard good things about them. Never used them.

Whoops!!! buying the pres and interface just blew your budget LOL

Mics:
Stereo pair of SDC: Rode NT4. Around $325 used. Good, not great, general purpose mics that save you the hassle of hours of mic placement.

LDC:
that's to taste since I'm assuming you'll only be recording your voice.

Cabling:
Ahh the voodoo subject! Me, i hear the difference between good ('spensive) and not so good cabling. Let your ears decide, but I would invest a few bucks in the good stuff, you can always sell it on gearslutz if it doesn't work for you.

Hope this helps, i could go on for hours about this subject.

Thanks for the suggestions, Marc. Some great suggestions there, and I am familair with some of those products, BUT, not to play devil's advocate (Well okay, since we're talking about MY money, let's ), but this is more along the lines of what I had in mind right now:

- Interface: Apogee Duet 2 or RME Babyface. Both have their fans, and both seem to have some of the best mic pres contained in an interface. Both come with mixing software too. The Apogee's about $595 and the Babyface is about $700 (Hello Music had one at Christmastime for $299 but I didn't jump on it. ). I was leaning towards the RME Babyface for it's versatility (12 in/10 out). Which brings me to my next point: If the mic pres are so highly regarded on these units, then do I really need a mic pre? Both can offer up to 75db gain (Apogee) or 60db gain (Babyface), which should be more than enough to drive the Shure SM7B. But if not...

- Preamps: Was considering the Grace 101 ($565), Focusrite ISA One ($499), Black Lion Audio Audere ($495), or Art Voice Channel ($399)

- MIcs: While the Shure SM7b is a dynamic mic, it is an industry standard in broadcasting and especially for recording vocals. Hundreds of albums have been recorded with these, from Michael Jackson to Pearl Jam, Radiohead, etc. Can it do it all? No. There are times I want a more intimate sound. The SM7b can be a bit "excitable" sounding, great for rocking powerful vocals but I do find myself wishing I had something better for quieter, more "ethereal" intimate sounds. Condenser-wise, I had been considering the AKG C414XL ($899), Rode NT2000 ($599), or EV RE20 ($429. OOps! This is another dynamic, but apparently needs less juice than a SM7b). So here's my ignorant noobie question: I already have a hand held live condenser in the Shure Beta 87, which is a super cardioid and has excellent rejection/proximity effect reduction. It's a very crisp, clean mic. I've done live recordings with it as well as some voice overs, and to my ears it doesn't sound bad at all (especially through a decent preamp). Can a hand held not compete with a studio condenser? And do I really need a stereo mic setup like the Rode NT4? Bass would be DI'ed + cabinet mic'ing, as would guitar cabinet(s). An SM57 or any of the mics I already own wouldn't do the job?

Agree with you 100% regarding prepping the recording room. Question is, how exactly do you do that and how exactly do you listen for inherent room problems? I'm sure it goes way beyond just gluing a bunch of Auralex foam pads to my walls. When I'm right on the mic I'm not picking up much room ambiance anyway, and many condensers (like the AKG 414) can compensate by adjusting mic patterns on board.

Im sure FrenchyLefty will chime in at some point, after all he does own a studio!

A great source of knowldge is Recording Magazine: http://www.recordingmag.com/resources/72.html. They also have a service where they distribute emails on various recording topics, including acoustics, but I can't find where to sign up for it. It's free tho, you don't need to sign up for a paid subscription to receive it. might be archived on their site somewhere.

Don't know diddly about the Babyface, but I do know the Duet is really popular. However people seems to outgrow them pretty quick. And you are right about not needing outboard pre's if the Duet or Babyface meet your needs. If the Babyface has direct AD/DA converters like the FF800 does (find out what chips they use to covert digital to analog and vice versa), then you can expand to outboard pre's in the future. As you know mic's and pre's are like basses and amps. there's just a bunch of killer combinations out there and you could spend gazillion's chasing that dragon.

AFAIK all the pre's you suggested do a good job, I wouldn't have an issue using any of them, tho I would probly lean to The Black Lion judging from GSlutz geeky gushings.

you can NEVER have enough mics (sound familiar?). Me, I've never liked the AKG C414 line, except for the really old ones (pre mid ninety's), they just sound brittle on male voices to me. Rode makes great mikes, never met one I did not like (I have an NT-2A as well). The R20 is a good mike as well. You should get both LOL.

Hand held SDCs have some sonic limitations. Mostly proximity effect. Plus the Beta 87 (do you have the A or the C version?) are hyper-cardioid. Great for off-axis rejection, but leaves you a physically narrow sonic field in which to sing. I.e. moving your head centimeters will affect timbre. A multi pattern LDC is the way to go even if it stretches your budget a bit.

The NT4 stereo setup i mentioned is really useful for miking acoustic guitars, room ambience, drum overheads (don't kill me Frenchy!), etc. An SM57 can do the electric stuff (and some acoustic stuff also) especially for close-mic technique's. But a stereo pair like the NT4 is not an essential tool, it's a 'nice to have' tool for you at this point unless you plan to do a lot of acoustic recording. Stereo recording of acoustic guitars makes a huge difference to the soundfield. There are mixing tricks (track doubling) that can get you in the ballpark, but it's not quite the same.

You probably saw Vic from LeftyFret's stereo setup using Peluso CMC6's, but I'll post it again for convenience (shameless LeftyFrets plug )
http://www.youtube.com/embed/HLY_cxm7tUk

Absolutely! I have been a home studio enthusiast since I bought an Atari 1024ST and Cubase in the early nineties. In fact I keep my lefty bass GAS in check since I mostly invest in recording gear. (but I love to hang out with this little LB community!)

With what you already own, you can actually get a professional result with a limited investment. Although it does require some knowledge of recording techniques. Now on the gear side...
- AzWhoFan is correct, get your room properly equiped. You can get a few Acoustimac broadband absorbant panels + 2 bass traps (you need that bad if you want to mix) for about $300. It does not look cheap and tacky like the foam panels which ones, in my house, were banned by my wife! If it was only to record vocals, you could get one of those Primacoustic Voxguards (i have one) or SE electronics filter and get a much tighter sound.
- Your signal-chain should be simple but utilize only quality equipment.(i.e. Please, don't use this Behringer mixer of yours)
- As you said, you may want to get a quality "desert-island" large diaphragm condenser. The AKG C414 is an industry standard but you can also get a used AT4050 for around $400. This versatile and ominous condenser is sometimes a little more flattering on vocals. It will complement your SM7b which is great for powerful vocals (not like mine). In the same style of versatile mike, I just got a Blue Bluebird new for $300 and I love it on my voice (and it looks sexy). Check the reviews on this mike. I also have an AT4033 which is too "mid-bumpy" for vocals.
- The Apogee Duet is a great buy (used $400?). With it, you don't need an outside preamp except... to record your bass direct. I swear, tried everything, all the pedals and all the boxes such as Sansamp... and this is what I learned: If you want to record a great bass sound, you can either mix a clean preamp/interface with a miked bass cab OR use a good tube preamp - dedicated to bass or not. I just got an awesome Summit Audio 2BA-221 which allows to mix tube and clean sound. I got it used for $400 on the bay and use it for everything. In the same idea you can get a used UA Twin 710 on Ebay for around $500. A perfectly transparent and clean preamp such as the Grace 101 will not add anything to the clean sound of the Apogee. I don't remember if your Eden bass preamp has tubes in it but if it does then you just need the Apogee.
- When you record in 24bits/96hz you don't really need a compressor (unlike recording in 16/44.1). You can use plugins later. Personally I love my DBX160XT to record bass (everyone in the industry will tell you how it brings out the thump! A used DBX160A or XT goes for around $220)
- get quality cables $150?

Here we are, everything you need for an awesome quality recording. Your Soft applications are fine, and as a rule of thumb it is better to invest in quality hardware than getting tons of Soft and plugins (that you can't easily re-sell and often sound far from the gear they are supposed to emulate even if it is getting better).
If your room is treated and you have some bass traps, you should be able to mix with your Behringer monitors, (whatever the Gearslutz snobs may say) maybe complemented by a good headset such as the standard AKG K240.
The challenge is...mastering. If you want a real professional quality result, you may want to get it done by a professional.(It requires way too much investment and knowledge to achieve a pro-quality mastering) It is what I plan to do for the album I am currently recording (hence, not much time spent on this forum).
If you just want to produce a nice demo you can use the great Ozone Izotope mastering software (around $200)

Getting the minimum to achieve a nice result would be around $1200 (in bold), you can go a little more fancy with the tube preamp, the compressor and the mastering software, you are barely over $2000. I hope it helps!

i could not agree more with what F-L said. Especially re the AT mics. I've used both and the 4033 sounded way too nasally on my voice.

And what he said re getting a good bass sound makes perfect sense. i've dicked around a bit with a Twin 710 and liked it, but didn't have enough time to get a killer sound out of it (I was messing around with a friend's unit at a jam session).

A good place to start looking at custom cables is http://www.lavacable.com/ . I dunno about their own brand but they carry some killer audiophile brands. If you decide to go that route, of course dig around on TGP or GSlutz for better pricing.

Boy, lots to think about here. Thanks so much for your input guys. Some fantastic advice.

So here are my thoughts:

- Apogee Duet 2 or RME Babyface. This will be my first gear purchase after said room prep (unless the SE Reflexion Filter negates any room prep. See below). I'm leaning more towards the Babyface because you seem to get more bang for the buck. It's both an audio and midi interface, and comes with TotalMix software, which is supposedly a very respectable virtual DSP mixer with onboard effects, so if my Behringer's not gonna cut it I can mix internally. It is also reputed to have flatter, more neutral sound than the Apogee, which imposes it's character on your sound (not necessarily a bad thing).

- Sound proofing. I get that I need to do it, but how on earth do you know what to look/hear for? I don't have a clue how to test my room or optimize it. I have a book entitled, "Home Recording Studio - Build it Like the Pros" that's pretty highly respected. But it's DEEP, and goes way beyond what I intend to do. If there's a chapter or two in there that simply discuss sound reinforcement and buffering, then I'll see what I can do. And I'll also look online and at the sites you guys mentioned. My basement's already built and has to serve multi-purposes, unfortunately, so my goal will be to do what I can without a complete reconstruction.

- SE Electronics Reflexion Filter I saw one of these for the first time at GC last week and was curious what it was. Looked gimmicky, but then I'm reading rave reviews about it everywhere. Maybe it could address some of the room prep issues I might have quickly. Really, I don't see myself tracking anything but close proximity vox and bass/guitar cabinets anyway, (Eden Navigator bass cabinet, has a D.I. as well as pre and post EQ option while my guitar setup might consist of close mic'ed Fender Deluxe Reverb and/or my Boss GT Pro COSM amps/effects processor) so little of the natural room sound would be required anyway (hopefully). And if I'm only using 1 dedicated room to do all my tracking/mixing anyway and it's been well sound proofed, then there wouldn't be much room ambiance to capture or add to the mix anyway. Software reverbs, delays, etc. should get me that.

- Microphones The Beta 87 I have is one of the earlier narrow shaft ones that predates the changes made when they renamed it the Beta87a. I'm going to see if I can try out some condenser mics over the next few weeks. It's funny, I can perform live no problem in front of hundreds of people without self-awareness, but the minute I'm in a store trying gear out one-on-one with a sales rep I feel like a schmuck. It's hard to get a feel for a mic too when you're just singing
acapella in a store too, but we'll see. I was initially attracted to the AKG c414 because that was the studio mic that Freddie Mercury used, but I'm also well-aware of the differences between those early 70's ones and the newer ones (especially the highly coveted c12 brass capsule). I guess the newer ones don't compare? There's two 414s out, the c414XL II and the c414 XLS. Are you referring to both as thin and brittle, Marc? The c414 XL II supposedly tries to capture the sound of the c12 capsule. (though I've read that the previous discontinued c414XLS-B came closest). Will definitely add the AT4050 to my try out list, along with the Rode NT2-A, NT2000, Neumann TLM49, and some Blue mics (I've heard good things about the Baby Bottle, and a female folk singer friend uses it for "smoky" French ballads. Or I can sell half my bass collection for a U47.

- Cables Are you referring primarily to instrument and mic cables? All of my stuff is Monster brand. Not good enough?

Frenchie, funny you mention your first recording setup. Mine was a Tascam 4 track Porta One that recorded to cassette tapes. In the early 90's, I got an Amiga 500 computer and a very excellent (for the time) midi sequencer program called Music X. I was doing a lot of elaborate orchestrated sequenced keys/strings stuff back then (think "Drama" period Yes), so only vox, bass, and guitars actually recorded to cassette while sequenced midi tracks would play back in sync via SMPTE code striped to one track on the cassette. What a royal pain in the ass that was! You had to have 1 track dedicated to just the striped code (which, if you've never heard it, sounds like a flock of turkeys getting strangled), leaving you 3 remaining tracks to record on (actually 2 if you were planning on bouncing down). if any of your signals were a bit hot and bled onto the SMPTE track, you were screwed and had to start again. Your time code would be obliterated and your sequences wouldn't lock up. Eventually, I got very good at it, and I have to say my little Porta One demos sounded pretty good for the time, and it did teach me how to use my ears in terms of proper instrument placement and mixing. But that was 20 years ago and I haven't really recorded at home since. So back to the present.

I'll have to post some of those old demos just for shites and giggles.

Send (or post) me and F-L some detailed pics of your room - and dimentions - and we can talk offline re what you should do - or not do - with it.
The first thing i do when I walk into a room is clap my hands and listen for reflections and nodes and general acoustics goodness/badness.
Must dash ... more to come ....

PJ, on the room issue, there is often confusion.
- If you just need your room to sound good for a clean recording, you just need some broadband absorbants panels which will kill most of the reflexions (if you don't care about the esthetic much, you can get an Auralex kit with enough foam panels for $100 or even get the kit that includes the bass traps for a little more). It should be enough and you would not necessarily need the SE filter (which is great but very heavy and $300)
- If you want to mix, you need some bass traps to kill the residual bass frequency building in the corners of the room and prevent from hearing the exact balance of bass in your mix (without them, you'll get to your car with your CD, all exited to listen to this cool tune that you spent an hour mixing and then realize that it sounds waaaayyyy to bassy...)
- If you want to "soundproof" to either create a super tight sounding professional recording/mastering studio or use the room to play full volume with your DeathMetal band without bothering your eighty years old neighbors THEN you need to build up. (like a box inside another box pretty much). But I don't think it is what you have in mind and I don't think you need that. The suede Acoustimac panels look super classy and decorative. Check their site.

Also, I first bought the Blue Baby bottle but did not like its "huge high-mid bump and the kinda muddy highs". I returned it the next day to get the Bluebird, $100 cheaper, much more versatile and better sounding. A lot of peeps on Gearslutz prefer the Bluebird. If you want to spend the money for a C414 then you may want to also consider the awesome Neuman TLM103 which also goes for a grand. In my opinion the AT4050 is a bargain though, in a different league than the Rode NT2 and more versatile.

Now that you remind me of it, I also owned a Tascam Portastudio 4 track before using the Atari. What a nightmare! Recently someone wanted to give me an Akai Sampler S5000, I looked at this huge dinosaur and said "no thanks". I would have killed for one 20 years ago!

AzWhoFan: I'll be happy to send you some pics but since I am relocating my (converted bedroom) music room, it might take a few weeks before I can do so.

Used Blue Bluebird at GC for $199.00...

http://www.guitarcenter.com/In-Store-Us ... e=4WWRWXGB

Also, here's an interesting review on the mic..... F-L, what do you think about the review?

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr05/a ... uebird.htm

I read it before purchasing the Bluebird and it is right on the money. The only annoying thing is the shockmount not supporting the weight of the Mike very well which everyone is complaining about. I'd love to post some sound clips but I have a lot going on at the moment including dealing with messed up harddrive on my computer.

Frenchy,
I was talking about pics of PJ's basement, not your room But, wouldn't mind seeing those as well.

I like your advice, I think it's pointing PJ in the right direction. I have a tendency to go over-kill on such subjects, and probably would have insisted he build a floating floor and rip out the existing wood framework and replace them with staggered studs LOL. It's way too easy to go into overkill when constructing a recording area isn't it?

When I had a house built in Chicagoland, I went so far as to insist the contractor sink a 6 ft copper ground rod 5 ft into the ground thru the foundation when they poured the concrete. The contractor thought I wuz nutz, but my EE buds were smiling all the way LOL. The idea behind all that was to build a 'discrete' breakout 60 amp sub panel off the main feed from the transformer. The way I had it wired up, it reduced interference from the rest of the house -most noise went to ground without having to resort to a star-quad grounding setup. To drop the noise floor even further, I bought an Equiteck balanced power unit -> http://www.equitech.com/products/industrial/wall.html <-, tho in those days it was a rack mounted unit and didn't include the electrical panel. That sucker dropped my noise floor by 12dB! But of course all the above would be way overkill for today's home applications.

One other 'rule of thumb' I've used before is to have a reflective surface (i.e. hardwood flooring) of a few square feet under and around the mixing desk/workstation. It's good for producing natural sounding early reflections when you do playback, since the idea is to not completely kill off all early reflections. Might be something for PJ to think about.

Oh, and hey! I still have my 4 track Portastudio

Holly !

Any American Horror Story fans here? (That and Homeland are my 2 favorite shows right now). THE house is up for sale. Price drop to a mere $4.5mil AND it has a built-in chapel/recording studio too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/1 ... 51504.html

If I followed Marc's advice, he'd have me scrapping my home to purchase this instead, then have me spend millions more insulating it from ectoplasm interference.

All kidding aside, your advice has been invaluable. I did check out the Acoustimac site, and they look like great reasonably-priced products. I especially like the standard live room package 1 with bass trap option for about $669 (six 48" x 24" x 2" panels; four bass traps). Mixing area may need to be treated separately though, even though it's around the corner from my main area it's not isolated from main room. I'm still trying to visualize how I could mount them without making the room appear smaller and/or visually unappealing though, since this IS a multi-purpose basement. I've got about 285 sq ft. to play with, consisting of an open area of about 18' x 11' with another mixing/computer area of about 8' x 9' that opens up into the main area (though tucked around a wall at the far left end of basement). Other rooms down there are a laundry room, boiler room, closet (under stairs), and storage room, which are closed off from main room via slatted bi-folds. Ceilings are only 78" high, so I'm not sure I can hang or mount panels from them without feeling claustrophobic. (I see they offer 1" thick panels, so maybe that's not so bad). But I do need to do something, since it sounds like a herd of buffalo when my kids are running around upstairs. Floor is carpeted and walls/ceiling are 1/2" sheet rock. There are two small 35" x 18" sliding windows in the area, though one is at the foot of the stairs where I won't be tracking and the other hangs over my computer desk in the mixing area. The basement is NOT insulated, since it remains a constant temperature of anywhere between 65-72 degrees all year round, though I do maintain the humidity throughout the year via humidifier/dehumidifiers. I discussed the Acoustimac options with my wife (THE final word, unfortunately), and she had a similar concern, since we don't want the room to start closing in. I spent a lot of feng shui time visualizing and maximizing the basement space to keep it as open and airy as possible, and thus few of my room corners are available for bass traps now since they have standing closets, cabinets, and a refrigerator in them. Ideally, I'm thinking panels or baffles (hang over slatted bi-fold doors?) that could be put up and taken down relatively quickly only when I'm recording would be the way to go so I'm not encroaching on the overall space/look of the basement now when others are using it. (It looks like the Acoustimac panels mount and remove pretty easily). And what do you do about windows? Just stuff them with thick foam cut to size? Or, I could just avoid all of this nonsense and zip myself up into a well-insulated sleeping bag whenever I want to track.

Anyway, I will get some photos and size sheet together and e-mail you guys offline when I get a chance.

Thanks much

Friggin right on bro!
You want the Angelic realm to come in ( 50kHz to 100kHz ), but none of that Astral realm crap above those freq's

We should always remember that many successful rock'n'roll albums have been recorded in places not dedicated to music recording. For example, (almost) everyone knows the story of Deep Purple recording Machine Head at the Montreux Grand Hotel (forced to relocate there after the Montreux Casino burned during a Zappa concert - An incident which inspired the song Smoke on the Water). It's an example among many.
Anyhow, I doubt that the engineers who built this hotel cared about the 50hz, 100hz or anything that has to do with music, yet it does sound pretty darn good. Obviously they did not mix there but it tells you that you can get a pretty good sound in the box without a perfect acoustic environment. You just need a good combination of gear and knowledge. What I perceive through the forums such as Gearslutz is the incredible amount of equipment used by some unfortunately producing some very mediocre results.

That's it. End of story, IMO. I don't think I'm anywhere near that happy combo just yet, but I do think I've got a good pair of ears. Getting good sounds out of what I have is another story, however.

I've been trying to absorb as much info as I can via here, online reviews, and Gearslutz. I agree, that place is a bit lopsided, and it's hard to navigate through the nonsense to find worthwhile advice.

On another note, without the benefit of a good interface or preamp just yet I'm already worried about driving my Shure SM7b with enough gain. Then I read about this interesting device:

http://tritonaudio.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=33

Phantom power for a ribbon or dynamic mic? I wonder if this is all the solution I'll need.

i dunno about the FatHead, it's the first I heard of it. But for a similar if not identical product I would go with the guys from Cloud. They are down the road from me in Tucson, and I've spent a few hours talking to them about their products/design philosophies and they know of where they speak! Also got to play around with their products at NAMM last year. They gots some killer mics in their lineup.

http://cloudmicrophones.com/products/

PJ, I'd be real interested to find out what your opinion of HelloMusic is. Like, how long did it take to get the merch, how they shipped etc. etc.

I nearly pulled the trigger on the LA-610 MKII today .... but, I've almost blown my gear budget for '12 in the 1st two weeks of the year

I don't know about you guys but as much as possible i try to buy "industry standards" when i buy some gear. For many good reasons i stay away from exotic products. Anyhow, there is this new Royer 101 that sounds interesting but i think you'll ne happy with some of the mic we already mentioned.
AzWhoFan, the UA 610 MKII is awesome especially to record a bass but there are quite a few on CL and Ebay. Last year Joe Satriani was selling one on CL Bay Area!