Agent00Soul wrote:
Did you read the comments below the article? Some people will find any excuse to politicize anything....
I know, typical right wing nut jobs
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| Gibson get busted -again http://leftybassist.com./viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2910 |
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| Author: | AzWhoFan [ August 24th, 2011, 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gibson get busted -again |
This has got to be tough on the employees in these hard economic times http://www.wmctv.com/story/15323207/authorities-raid-gibson-guitar-factory-in-downtown-memphis |
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| Author: | thumbslam [ August 24th, 2011, 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
link doesn't work.. |
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| Author: | AzWhoFan [ August 24th, 2011, 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
Sorry 'bout that chief! Should be working now. |
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| Author: | frankenjazz [ August 25th, 2011, 6:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
wow, you just have to wonder when will some people learn |
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| Author: | pjmuck [ August 25th, 2011, 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
Well I, for one, find it admirable that Gibson's willing to break the law in order to give their customers (read: righties) only the finest quality woods to help justify their premium pricing. Now if they could just learn proper QC, they might actually be on to something. Who knows, perhaps with a few more lawsuits they'll have no choice but to consider untapped potential markets to keep afloat. Before you know it, Gibson might be THE definitive source of left handed instruments. |
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| Author: | Addison [ August 25th, 2011, 9:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
AzWhoFan wrote: This has got to be tough on the employees in these hard economic times It was tough before these hard economic times... as evidenced by Gibson being voted WORST place to work in 2009. http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/12/ ... N320091216 What a shame... Gibson is an American icon and the people in charge are destroying their credibility. |
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| Author: | Agent00Soul [ August 25th, 2011, 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
Did you read the comments below the article? Some people will find any excuse to politicize anything.... |
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| Author: | frankenjazz [ August 25th, 2011, 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
Agent00Soul wrote: Did you read the comments below the article? Some people will find any excuse to politicize anything.... I know, typical right wing nut jobs
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| Author: | Rodent [ August 25th, 2011, 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
as a builder, I have definite concerns about the ever floating definition of what is / is no longer legal to buy/sell. as a precaution I have eliminated several woods from my list of offerings, the most known being all types of Ebony and most types of Rosewoods (with plantation grown Indian Rosewood being the exception) I see the list of restricted woods only becoming larger, and those companies smart enough to have long ago purchased significant stock for future production only being penalized by eventually being unable to sell it. I have no personal knowledge on the exact circumstances driving the Gibson raids, but find it chilling that I could have purchased significant supply of recycled (and thus lacking recognized undocumentation) Brazilian Rosewood years ago only to find myself now in the place of breaking the law if I were to use it on an instrument shipped outside of the USA  here's a short and interesting read if you're looking for Lacey Act classification info: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... -codes.pdf all the best, R |
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| Author: | andrew [ August 25th, 2011, 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
Rodent wrote: the exact circumstances driving the Gibson raids I read that Gibson is accused of dealing in currently illegal wood, not just using an old back stock of woods they already have. Gibson denies it, but that seems to be the crux of the investigation. |
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| Author: | Agent00Soul [ August 25th, 2011, 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
I didn't realize the law prevents old stock from being sold. Wouldn't this prevent things like antique dealers from selling furniture? |
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| Author: | LHBASSIST [ August 25th, 2011, 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
frankenjazz wrote: Agent00Soul wrote: Did you read the comments below the article? Some people will find any excuse to politicize anything.... I know, typical right wing nut jobs Funny, it seems to some of us that typical left wing nut jobs is an equally applicable term. Can't we leave politics off this board, and discuss the matter at hand? I want to talk and read about about left handed basses here. I, for one lefty bassist have been pissed off at Gibson since 1976, when I waited a year for the Bi-Centennial Thunderbird I PAID for, that never arrived...and then the black Ripper I ordered that also was invisible. Glad in a way, because I had Carl Thompson make me a much better bass....and I began my interest in pursuing my repair career again. The fact is, even with what I just said, that Gibson is INNOCENT of any wrongdoing until PROVEN guilty in court. That's not political, it's the justice system here in America. |
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| Author: | frankenjazz [ August 25th, 2011, 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
LHBASSIST wrote: frankenjazz wrote: Agent00Soul wrote: Did you read the comments below the article? Some people will find any excuse to politicize anything.... I know, typical right wing nut jobs Funny, it seems to some of us that typical left wing nut jobs is an equally applicable term. Can't we leave politics off this board, and discuss the matter at hand? I want to talk and read about about left handed basses here. I, for one lefty bassist have been pissed off at Gibson since 1976, when I waited a year for the Bi-Centennial Thunderbird I PAID for, that never arrived...and then the black Ripper I ordered that also was invisible. Glad in a way, because I had Carl Thompson make me a much better bass....and I began my interest in pursuing my repair career again. The fact is, even with what I just said, that Gibson is INNOCENT of any wrongdoing until PROVEN guilty in court. That's not political, it's the justice system here in America. Hey man, didn't mean to offend I was trying to make a joke (hence the laughing emoticon) from what agent00soul said about people trying to politicize things. |
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| Author: | LHBASSIST [ August 26th, 2011, 6:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
Hey man, didn't mean to offend I was trying to make a joke (hence the laughing emoticon) from what agent00soul said about people trying to politicize things.[/quote] Understood, my bad...and probably my spending WAY too much time on Facebook! LOL! |
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| Author: | AzWhoFan [ August 26th, 2011, 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
Henry J responds: http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/gibson-0825-2011/ |
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| Author: | AzWhoFan [ August 26th, 2011, 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
Agent00Soul wrote: I didn't realize the law prevents old stock from being sold. Wouldn't this prevent things like antique dealers from selling furniture? Apparently so, is my understanding. There is a good article about Lacey implications in a recent Vintage Guitar magazine. Don't know if it got posted online tho, I rarely visit their site. |
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| Author: | frankenjazz [ August 26th, 2011, 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
On talkbass someone posted an article where the writer says that if you travel internationally you have to have verification of all the materials on the instrument and if any of them are band they had to have been put on the instrument before the ban and if you can't provide verification on hand then your instrument can be taken by customs and get hit with fines and possible charges. I find it to be a bit ridiculous. I'm all about saving the environment but all this seems out of hand. Just my 2 cents. |
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| Author: | AzWhoFan [ August 26th, 2011, 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
found this article on TGP http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html |
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| Author: | Rodent [ August 26th, 2011, 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
this ought to scare the livin' willies out of anybody who makes anything from materials that originate from outside the US Quote: The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India. so what material will become the 'pet du jour' next? what if it's a tree in the Mahogany genus? Mahogany is legal to obtain, build with, and sell internationally today ... but if the rules change tomorrow, how is one to accommodate the 'proof of ownership' needed to satisfy litigation when today I can buy materials from a local backyard saywer for cash/barter? tomorrow it could be Limba, Koa, Ash, or anything else. from the perspective of a small customer builder, I have to mitigate my financial risk by NOT accumulating wood that could possibly be added to the CITES list so it's properly aged prior to manufacturing usage. this leaves me the choice of not offering that wood as an option (and losing sales because of it) or purchasing pieces of that wood right at the last minute and paying a premium price for it (which only increases the cost of a bass, which has potential to cost me further sales) and we won't even dare question what the gov is going to do with all that confiscated wood should it win their legal case. I suspect you'll see it is either burned (what a crying and irresponsible shame!), sold on auction with 'documentation' that allows it to be used for the manufacture of certain goods, or even worse - the US taxpayer will foot the bill to have it shipped back to the country of origin (so it can be resold by that country's gov with forged paperwork) this whole topic is soooo utterly frustrating to those who make an effort to be in accordance with the letter and spirit of the law in all of their business practices all the best, R |
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| Author: | Rodent [ August 26th, 2011, 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gibson get busted -again |
the link below provides access to a presentation available in a public area on the NAMM site http://www.namm.org/files/Lacey%20Act%2 ... ebinar.ppt after reading this, it looks like I'm about to no longer offer shell or other natural type position markers for any instrument shipping outside the US. sorry for this, but I simply cannot risk the financial loss of having something 'less than perfect' on any export paperwork all the best, R |
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